New Unionism

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Comment by Peter HJ on November 7, 2011 at 1:12

The New Unionism Network has just voted overwhelmingly to support the Occupy movement, both locally and internationally. See http://newunionism.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/occupy/ (some cool pics as well)

Comment by tarkvaageesh on April 24, 2011 at 12:47

We will definitely take a look at these links ......comrade Moro......

Comment by Piergiorgio Moro on April 24, 2011 at 12:40

Dear all,

 

some interesting points. Organising both at the workplace and politically is not easy.

I was interested in comrade's Tarkvaageesh link to a workers charter. Here at Australia Asia Worker Links have been working, with a number of union partners in the region, on a similar endeavour, see http://aawl.org.au/content/we-need-global-labour-movement-charter

 

Interested in your comments. Also have a statement on the recent uprising in West Asia and North Africa, see www.aawl.org.au

 

In solidarity

Pier

Comment by tarkvaageesh on April 24, 2011 at 12:27

Yes, Mr. Scott's position is  better one although not completely right. That is what we were trying to say...that trade union alone cant hep workers. They need a party of their own also. Only trade union wont be of much great help. At the same time i also express regret for being so bitter in polemics......i should have exercised more restraint and balanced approach in criticism.

 

So, coming back to Mr. Palikhe Rajesh's position.......actually, it not his fault either if he says that trade union should be kept out of politics. This has been a big problem in world communist movement and also in countries like India (where we are) that parties frequently undemocratically interfere with normal functioning of trade unions and make workers meek and docile which ultimately have a bad impact on International Workers Movement. We agree to this fact completely. It is as clear as daylight to us. And when people and masses see that such a thing is happening, they start criticizing party and start advancing the logic that party itself is useless. So, actually it is not Mr. Rajesh's fault or Mike Harris' or Data Miner's fault that seeing such things they make a opinion that party and politics is bad and trade union is good......We also feel strongly that trade unions should be created and should be allowed to function smoothly and democratically. Workers should be allowed to have major say in those unions and dissident voices should not be curbed undemocratically as had been the case, for instance in India. We believe in 'let the 100 flowers bloom' policy. But what we are trying to say is that ......yes there is a problem of undemocratic interference by parties, we accept it, but if somebody stretches this and start saying that we do not need parties at all, then he is at fault. He is committing a grave error. Knife is a good thing because we chop meat, pitzza, vegetables, etc. with it and it is a very necessary thing in our kitchen, but at the same time this very knife can turn into very bad thing if any goon or thug lay his hands on it! Then, he can use that knife to rob us! So, knife is good and bad both! It all depends on who is using it for what purpose! Similarly, party is important and necessary for workers if parties guide workers into right direction, but if party start interfering undemocratically, then it should be opposed. But if someone says that no we don't need party at all then we oppose it because that person is throwing the knife out of kitchen just on the basis of suspicion that it can be wrongly used! It wont be prudent on worker's part to throw or oppose parties like this. So, in summary, we need both of them for varying different purposes.



Moreover, here in India, we have different number of unions and we encounter this same problem here about which Mr. Palikhe is talking! And that is why we feel that his and Mike's observation is right and should be taken into account while talking a new initiative for worker's movement in 21st century. Trade union should be run democratically and party should not be allowed to do undemocratic things and turn trade unions into docile instruments.....We also agree to it.....

Moreover, keeping this thing in view, we, in India, on May 1, 2011 are going to organize May Day in Delhi on Jantar Mantar. Please see the following link for this




http://www.workerscharter.in/





We strongly feel that because of so many unions and parties and organizations, worker's strength gets divided, so we are trying to bring all different groups under a common umbrella of Worker's Charter Movement 2011. For this we have taken inspiration from Chartist Movement of England of 1870s and 1880s where millions of English workers launched their joint charter expressing their common class demands and they presented it to the British Parliament. If workers will come under one big umbrella or on one common platform then they will be in better position to assert their right.....


If you think that we are right in doing so, please join us on that day and also spread a word about it and contact us. Together we can do everything what we cant do individually.

 

 

 

Regards

Tarkvaageesh

Comment by Scott Wallace on April 23, 2011 at 23:42

The workers never gained direct control of the industries under the Bolsheviks, in spite of the Bolsheviks' slogan, "all power to the soviets".  They attempted to do that inside the Bolshevik party through the Workers' Opposition, but they were defeated and their publication banned.

Yes we need a revolutionary party, and we need a revolutionary union movement working hand in glove.  The party needs to declare the revolutionary goal and attempt to achieve a political mandate for that goal.  The revolutionary union movement needs to fight for as much as possible as long as capitalism exists, but it also must prepare the the working class to take hold of and directly and democratically operate the means of production. It must generate the muscle in the industries to back up what the party accomplishes politically.

 

Comment by tarkvaageesh on April 23, 2011 at 22:51

Mr. Data Miner

 

"direct ownership of the factors  of production!!".......this is again empty hollow phrase.

 

 

.and can you site me even single example from last  3000 year of history where toiling masses were able to gain that "direct ownership of the factors  of production!!" without throwing away the exploitative system which prevented them from gaining "direct ownership of the factors  of production!!"? 

 

Did Roman slaves ever get this much touted "direct ownership of the factors  of production!!" or the poor peasants spanning across the 1000 year history of feudalism or in modern capitalist world were ever workers able to get it without their blood and sweat?

 

I think i need not comment more on that. You first give us an example and then we will talk further! and one advice. please read.......and enlighten yourself with history of communist movement.

 

 

i would be leaving now.....but i will start the dialogue once again when i come back. ......

Comment by tarkvaageesh on April 23, 2011 at 22:41

Well it is a matter of one's choice to be a Leninist or Kautskist or Khrushchevist or Deng Xiaopingvist or Palikhevist!  But if yu have read history properly Mike, then we all know that  Kautskist or Khrushchevist or Deng Xiaopingvist and these people themselves betrayed the cause of revolution and proved to be labor lieutenant of capitalist class (though i must admit here that i cant say such a thing about Mr. Palikhe)    ......... ( I hope Mr. Mike or shall i say Comrade Mike will be able to understand the satire here!)  Moreover, i am a Leninist because Kautskist or Khrushchevist or Deng Xiaopingvist or Palikhevist never did revolution anywhere but Lenin did!!! and you may be well aware that the saying goes that "

Actions are louder than words"!!!!!!



and yes "workers organizations need structure, they need folks to be elected to responsibilities and they coordination"  but what for? Now, Mr. Mike and Mr. Palikhe will say for 'trade unions and keeping workers out of politics' and to this we reply that this is again 'crass trade unionism and economism' which amounts to treason with workers and which amounts to helping capitalist no matter whether you do it intentionally or unintentionally. Please note that i am not questioning your credibility or intention here but i am strictly criticizing you for your wrong political views here. You want betterment of toiling masses but end up making capitalists healthier and wealthier! You end up raising a toast and three cheers to their health and wealth rather than worker's. Although you do it because you do not have proper understanding of history as is the case with Mr. Palikhe and his likes.


If workers keep themselves busy in trade unionism then politics and state and police and factories and "transmission belts" will remain in hands of capitalist "parties" and capitalist class as a whole and in such a case, we workers will remain exploited! and if we would resist, they will not send olive branches for us but their poilce and army! This way workers would not be able to achieve what they want to achieve...i.e., exploitation of man by man (and not just 10% hike in wage or making unions for "betterment" of workers which is impossible in capitalism). And workers can achieve their aim only if they do what Marx said in his magnum opus Das Capital , i.e. socialize means of production  and what Lenin, Stalin,and Mao did in practice! (and not Kautskist or Khrushchevist or Deng Xiaopingvist or Palikhevist! !)


And moreover for your kind information not only "workers organizations need structure, they need folks to be elected to responsibilities and they coordination" but capitalist also need "structure, they need folks to be elected to responsibilities and they coordination".Capitalist builds trust, cartels, NGOs (Which are their Trojan horse to weaken class consciousness of workers), etc. but they dont just sit there. They go beyond that and make political parties also! (which rule on their behalf and impose their class dictatorship on workers) which you are advising workers not to make!


Party alone is weapon in hands of workers to fight capitalism and you are snatching workers of it making them vulnerable to capitalist attacks...making them impotent to resist the organized violence of capitalist and fascist sates against them and leaving workers orphan!   But why? On whose side you or Mr. Palikhe stand? Us or Them?.............Think twice! And you are doing it in name of workers themselves! .........This reminds me of Jesus' words........"Oh Lord Forgive them (our tade unionists and those doing economism) for they don't know what they are doing"!!!


Now about your pompous but empty hollow words about "policy that uses direct action and self-managed workers actions and organization"  I smiled when i read these lines and i am sure you also do not now what these words mean!     "policy that uses direct action".....'direct action' to achieve what? communism i.e. end of exploitation of man by man or mere 10% pay hike! Again same question crops up- Leninism or crass trade unionism? ............"and self-managed workers actions and organization" ......but for what..... to run trade union or to make a party which can carry out the task of revolution? and under capitalism no matter how many "worker organization or structures" you make or how many "policies" you make, how many "direct actions" you do or how many "self-managed workers actions and organization" you make, these things wont bring about any change in  toiling worker's conditions if you choose to remain within the boundary of capitalism and not to overthrow it! Because until and unless you throw capitalist system to dustbin of history, a worker of any trade union will remain worker on a "transmission belt" (which is even worse than party "transmission belts") and those scoundrels sitting in their lush luxury cabins will remain their "owners" or "managers". In short,    NOTHING WILL CHANGE!



Also, tight and fast party "transmission belts" are better than sluggish trade union "transmission belts"! Party "transmission belts" represent a higher and organized form of class consciouness of workers and what party can achieve for workers can never be achieved by trade unions. We also say that it is necessary to make trade unions, but we don't stop here like you but move ahead to making a revolutionary party. But you stuck at trade unionism! And moreover just as slave society was better than primitive communes, just as feudalism was better than slave society, just as capitalism is better than feudal society, and just as socialism is better than capitalist society, similarly, party "transmission belts" are better than "trade unionism" and (Bolshevik) political leaders are better than "trade unionists" doing trade unionism!

Revolutions have been done by political leaders and not secretaries of trade unions. I need not mention again that we are not against creating trade unions or participating in them but if somebody says that just do trade unionism and leave politics, then we staunchly oppose them  and we say that such people are ill advisors of proletariat! Beware of them!

Lastly, whatever i said above is a, b,c of Marxism and it is quite easy and simple to understand it but what is preventing you people to  understand this simple and plain logic is something which i cannot understand!


For more this topic, acquaint yourself with history of Russian communist movement and you will come to know how wrong you are!

Remember, Marx said "History repeats itself first time as tragedy, second time as farce."!!!! .............is anybody listening?

Comment by DAta Miners Travailleurs Psychiq on April 23, 2011 at 21:51

the bolshevix were the gravediggers of the revolution! they sold us out!

 

workers unions are just one step towards workers councils and direct democracy - direct ownership of the factors of production!!

 

abolish the economy!!

 

DAta Miners Travailleurs Psychique

Comment by Mike Harris on April 23, 2011 at 20:02

I would tend to agree with Palikhe Rajesh.

Then again, I am neither a leninist or bolshevik as tarkvaageesh is.

Workers organizations need structure, they need folks to be elected to responsibilities and they coordination...... and a policy that uses direct action and self-managed workers actions and organization. Not party "transmission belts."

 

 

Comment by tarkvaageesh on April 23, 2011 at 19:55

"in my view the best thing of unionizm is to advocate themself as tradeunionist not a politician.if the tradeunionist convert into politician then the union became political party cadres organization not the workers organization".....This post is by Mr. Palikhe Rajesh............

I think Mr. Rajesh does not know a, b, c of communism. Otherwise if he would have taken little pains to even gloss over Lenin's 'What Is To Be Done' or other Marxist classics he would have avoided himself from falling into the stinking pit of "Economism" or "Trade unionism" which blindfolds proletariat and prevents them from acquiring this holistic perspective of entire capitalist system that it is not sufficient to just keep asking for pay hikes or dearness allowance, or to keep asking for this or that allowance, or asking for improvement in working conditions in factories, or making unions or groups, but to completely smash and overthrow the entire exploitative system itself and to impose class dictatorship of proletariat over the entire bourgeoisie class. If workers keep forming newer and newer unions or groups demanding pay hikes or allowances, then in first place, the entire capitalist class will not accept these demands as it cause "profit squeeze" for them and even if they give everything what workers are demanding (which is a pious wish!! Amen!!!) then the capitalist class in turn will increase prices of goods creating inflation leading to devaluation of money and with devalued money, workers will in turn again get less! So we came back to the point from where we started! You keep running in the circle of economism! never worrying about 'State and Revolution'! thinking that revolution and party building should be left for politicians. This does not put an end to exploitation of workers and further weakens them! This is exactly what those treacherous German Social Democrats (Kautsky, Carl Legien, etc.) did in Germany. While Hitler was marching toward throne, German Social Democrats kept wokers running in the circle of economism which lead to easy victory for Hitler and fascists and rest we all know. It is history now.! Economism and trade unionism amounts to treason! and in all conditions true communists must fight in all their strength against it and should educate workers about the dangers of not doing politics and getting lost in doing trade unionism or economism. The question of true welfare of workers can be solved ultimately by revolution alone not trade unionism or economism. It is not in interest of workers to forget revolution for sake of some pounds or dollars. If they do this, then they will have to bear what they are bearing now and will have to be content with it. The only solution is to learn from great experiments of 1917 of Russia and 1949 of China. The salvation does not lie in economism but Bolshevism! Of course, things have changed quite a lot from 1917 or 1949, but we are not telling you to copy those experiments but to understand the essence of them and to apply it in today's world.

So, the best thing for workers is to make a political party and not just any kind of political party but a Bolshevik one! and to wage struggle for communism for the betterment of entire working class of world! i.e. why we say that-

Workers of all world, unite!

Yes, unite! but not to do trade unionism or economism, but to smash the capitalist system and to build communism.!!!

i think i have made my point quite clear. What you say?

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